Episode 26 – Colby Wilson with Martin Orthopedics

Hey everybody, welcome to the iProv Made podcast where we help you build a more profitable practice. I’m Jordan Smith, you guys are gonna hear from my co host RJ Martino in just a second. But today we’ve got a special treat for you. We’ve got Colby Wilson. He’s the CEO of Martin Orthopedic. So I know there’s a lot of listeners out there that have a practice that are either looking for an operator or just trying to figure out how to operate their organization. So Colby’s got a unique perspective on that. And there’s a quote that I like a lot that he mentions throughout this, which is good doctors, giving good data makes good decisions. So today we’re going to talk a little bit about KPI is going to talk about culture, a little bit about Colby’s background, and just what his methodology is for running a successful healthcare practice. So without further ado, I’m excited to bring you guys Colby Wilson.  Hey, everybody, welcome to the iProv Made podcast where we help you run a more profitable practice. As always, I’m Jordan Smith, here with my fantastic co host and founder of iProv, RJ Martino. RJ How are you?

RJ Martino 

I’m great. Hey, Jordan, I’m excited to have our friend Colby. Why don’t you give Colby an introduction? kind of tell us a little bit about what we’re going to do today?

Jordan Smith 

Yeah, I know the audience heard we heard us teared up a second ago. But today we’ve got Kobe Wilson. He’s the CEO of Martin orthopedics, which is a large orthopedics groups. And he’ll he’ll tell us a little bit more specifics about the practice. But this is one of those cases where we listen to the listeners, right? And the audience out there. We saw that you guys responded whenever we had more providers on so I’m excited that we actually have not a doctor on the podcast but but you know, we talk about advice all the time about how outside organizations tell practices, they should run their business. So I’m excited to see kind of from the ground level, how somebody who lives and breathes it every single day and manages lots of doctors, which I know this practice administrators that are listening to this know what a feat that is to have Colby and for you guys to hear some of his story. So Colby, welcome, thanks for being on the pod.

Colby Wilson 

And thank you for inviting me. This is great. Really happy to be on here.

Jordan Smith 

Oh, very cool. I’ve known Colby for a little bit we’re becoming friends and Colby, tell the audience a little bit about, about Martin and kind of what you guys do and why you do it. And even even how you arrived there, because I know you had an interesting path to get to where you are today.

Colby Wilson 

Yeah. So Martin orthopedics. It’s been been and we’re in the new building here on Markham, which is right off of right near UAMS and been here about three years, but the practice itself has been in existence for a little bit longer than that. And Dr. Martin has been in practice for 20 plus years. So he’s been he’s been for all intents and purposes, I think he’s the knee guy in the state of Arkansas. It’s, it’s it’s interesting because I went traveling with him and the different clinics and everywhere we went, it just seems like they were big. Oh, you’re with Dr. Martin. I mean, it was it felt like I was traveling with a celebrity. And that was that was humbling, I think to him and surprising to me, but it was it was a fun experience. So I’m here at Martin orthopedics now and there’s five total physicians here. We got four different locations. And it’s a really a comprehensive kind of Orthopedic practice. I mean, each of them are fellowship trained in their own areas, but they do general orthopedics, too. So we’ve got you know, we’ve got the shoulders and upper extremities. We’ve got feet, ankles, hips, knees, and sports medicine and and then we get the general orthopedics, which is like carpal tunnel and trigger finger and stuff like that. But it’s a good place to be if you’re looking for kind of a one stop place for orthopedic care, because they’re all fellowship trained, like I said, they can refer to each other in house. So before I got here, I was definitely not in the world of orthopedics. I was in the world of Urology, which, you know, pretty different demographics in terms of ages and stuff when you go from urology to orthopedics. So that was definitely interesting. And obviously just a completely different type of care. I kind of stumbled my way into urology, doing human resources and worked my way up and in the practice management side and, you know, had an opportunity here to to move into a CEO role and was happy to do that because I just speaking from personal preference, I grew up playing sports, so I always had more of an interest for the PDA than I did when I did urology.

Jordan Smith 

Yeah, very cool. That’s a that’s an interesting and I do want to dig into kind of your background too and, and how you got there and also some things for the listeners to just look out for if you’re listening this your provider own practice that is thinking about having somebody come in and take over the business side of things, you know, or if you’re somebody that that does work from the administrator or business office standpoint, and does want to move up to a position that you’re in just you know, talk about some of those pitfalls and that type of stuff. But before we get to that, yeah, you know, if, if, if there’s listeners out there that are listening to it outside the state Martin orthopedics, basically, if it bends, they can take care of it on your body is where you go, is what have, you know, what, what I would tell people so well, Colby, I want to I want to lay out kind of the framework on the way that we always think about successful practices and, and how they manage things, which there’s always a very clear vision, right? It’s a vision that’s communicated with the entire staff, it’s a, it’s a vision that, that lays out not only how the organization is going to be viewed internally, but how the organization should be talked about and viewed externally. But the very first thing that we always say with a successful practice is a really clear, concise vision. That’s not that’s not unattainable, but a stretch goal on where they want to be in the future. We always say also, you know, if you’re, if, if you’re in a practice, especially if you own and you run a practice, and there are issues within the practice, there’s, there’s two things that we always say, and I’ve heard RJ say this all the time, which is good news. Bad news is it’s all your fault. Good news is it’s all your fault. So taking ownership of the problem, early triage and what those issues are, from that standpoint, laying out a framework to to, to just set aside time to strategize what the actual issue is, more often than not, the issue is a symptom of something larger. And again, the doctors out there that are listening to this, this is the same thing, whenever you’re evaluating a patient, it’s no different from a business perspective, the scratchy throat is a symptom of an underlying issue that you really need to solve to get rid of the scratchy throat. Same in business, right? So it’s, it’s really digging in and figuring out from a strategic standpoint, what the issues are, from there laying out a process to track progress, and engaging your team on a regular basis so that everybody’s rowing in the same direction. And that’s what we always say, are the high points on on what a successful practice looks like, and what a successful kind of problem solving triage process should be within an organization.

RJ Martino 

Yeah, and that’s good to understand kind of how we look at the practice and how we talk to our customers. And, you know, with that being said, I kind of know what I think the answer would be, but I want to hear it from you, Colby. You know, we see a lot of practices, you guys’ size and it’s not always we see a CEO. It’s actually, in fact, I’d say rare to have a CEO. And maybe I’m wrong, but talk about the thought process that maybe they had talked to you about, or you’ve also been in other places who have the CEO and our healthcare organization. Talk about the thought process behind there being a CEO who’s not a provider?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah, that’s a that’s a really good point. I mean, I’ve seen all the same things that you’re talking about larger practices, you know, usually 10 to 12 providers and up in terms of physicians, not just provider, sorry, but physicians, and now, you could see more CEO types in those organizations. But, you know, we’re, we’re at five positions and for eight VPS, so nine providers, but But yeah, we’re definitely on the smaller side. So I think, you know, when I visit with Dr. Martin originally about this position, they had an administrator prior to me, and, and nothing wrong with the administrator title, per se, it’s, but there came a different expectation with it, you know, the administrator, their their main function was to carry out what, you know, what was told to them, you know, if if, if one position things, you know, we need this kind of product, can you go get this, they would even try and line that up. So, we had that available here for the patient and say, it was more administrative in nature. I think when when you when you make the decision to to bring in a CEO, that the expectation can change, and that, you know, my job isn’t to tell them clinically how to do their jobs, because I would fail miserably, you know, in practice would think, but, you know, my job is to come up with strategies that have them all moving in the same direction. And my job should be to how do I grow the practice? You know, how am I how am I bringing sustainable, you know, revenue streams into the office? Like, what am I doing as an executive officer to help bring that to the group? And let it in a weird weigh becomes more proactive, like how what can I put in front of you guys to help move the group forward less? Well, you just tell me what your problems are. And I’ll just go one at a time, don’t try and hammer them out. Now, there definitely is a lot of that that happens. But I think that was kind of the thought process behind, you know, if we’re gonna grow and really move this practice to the next level, and compete with some of the larger ortho groups, well, then that means we need not only to have the internal structure such as an administration that can handle that, i.e. a CEO, but also like, we want to be able to take care of patients while you’re out there trying to grow and lead the practice.

Jordan Smith 

Hmm. Well, you mentioned something in there, that’s that I don’t want the listeners to gloss over which is, you know, really being proactive about the growth and the news, not even the new things, but just just all the things that the practice does, so that the doctors can focus on being doctors, and you can focus on the rest of it, right.

Colby Wilson 

Right.

RJ Martino 

So if you’re talking to another practice group, what are some? What’s the words? What are some key items where it would trigger you to think, you know, having a CEO might be a good idea for your group, you know, what we’re what, what our audience is, is, many are healthcare providers. And they have heard of people bringing the CEO in, and the first thing they get is a little scared of giving up control. But you know, what are some key factors that make you think, Hey, you know, what you guys think a CEO position might make sense for you? And on the alternative? Are there things where you say, Hey, your CEO will fail, even if you make it a title?

Colby Wilson 

So, great question, I mean, I think some of the pitfalls, where you think someone could fail is, if the group really isn’t bought in from the get go, that you need a CEO. I mean, if you got, if you got one or two people really pushing for it, then you’re probably going to always have some, some hesitancy from the other positions or partners really embracing that, Okay, I need to let them lead. And probably, this might not be the best example. But this is where I’ve seen it more often than not, is when it comes to just personnel decisions. physicians are, are really good at obviously diagnosing and treating, you know, what they went to school for, but what they didn’t go to school for is a lot of people management and the personnel management side of things, and it’s just one of the things you’re privy to when you go through the business side. So having a CEO in place can really help guide personnel and growing the practice. And when you run into difficult situations, you know, and how do you manage employees? What- what practices are you putting in place to help grow those employees that help benefit the practice, like, that’s just, that’s just something that you get more of once you’ve been in the business role a little bit longer. And, and what I’ve seen so far is, there’s been a little bit of relief on the physician side that they don’t have to deal with those kinds of issues. As far down, as you know, the hiring and the interviewing, and, you know, where did their skills match up? You know, and placing those people in the right position, even to the tough decisions of you know, their performance just isn’t quite meeting the level of expectations that we had, you know, do do we need to part ways with them? Yeah, that’s something that someone and the CEO top role can take on and relieve them of that, so they can truly focus more on the patient. That’s probably on the on the pitfall side, you may have to repeat that. The first part that you said there.

RJ Martino 

Well, what features or attributes make you feel confident that, Hey, you guys need a CEO? And I think that would be a great move for you. Are there any telltale signs that that let you comfortably, which, obviously, nobody has a crystal ball, but say, hey, these are telltale signs that you need a CEO?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah. The bigger your group, you know, it’s, if you get everyone in a room and we have practice meetings here, and we’ve got five physicians are in that meeting, and, and then me as well, and we have a decent amount of opinions in that group, but the larger your group gets, you know, if you have 10 physicians in the room, you’re probably going to walk away with 45 different opinions. And you know, that’s a good thing, you know, that I that kind of feedback is very valuable to someone in my type of role but, but you need that Someone in a CEO role to help kind of guide based on experience that, okay, I hear what you’re saying, but here’s the pitfalls with that, here’s where that could fail or no, that’s really good. I’ve seen it work this way. You need someone to whittle down all those thoughts, and kind of get them all heading in one general direction. You know, because at that point who really should take charge and, and it’s, if you do have a physician that kind of takes charge naturally, and kind of leads the group, you never want to be in a situation where the other ones look at that one thing, and well, it’s a biased decision, or it benefits them better. You know, we’re going to, we’re going to go in a different, different market, you know, we’re in Little Rock, and we want to go to Russellville, who’s going to go to Russellville? if you have the main physician making that call? Well, is it because it benefits their individual practice more than everyone else? And that’s where it can help having someone in a CEO role that you’re that you hope that they are objective, and that and they’re doing what’s best for the practice, not what’s best for the individual.

Jordan Smith 

That’s a great point. So, you know, you mentioned a couple things to you that are important. And you know, hiring, firing, having that business acumen. Numbers, we haven’t even talked about that which we want to get to, you know, kind of kind of helping, helping, helping a group of very smart, very, you know, oftentimes they’re not quiet about what their personal opinions are, helping them come to a consensus. What if there’s a provider out there or group and they’re listening to this? What are what are kind of some traits that you would say, if you are looking for a CEO, or somebody to run the business side of your practice? What types of personality should they look for? I know, you mentioned you came from kind of an HR background. What are what are some things and again, just in your opinion, that that the listeners, you’d say, man, if if if you’re hiring for a Colby out there, I would, I would tend to point towards people that either have this type of experience, or have done these type of work before. What would you tell somebody?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah. So my experience personally was, I started off more in a kind of basic administrative role at a hospital and I really got to learn the ins and outs of the revenue cycle. You know, that’s, that’s your whole check in getting the insurance collecting co pays, deductibles, coinsurance, that whole piece. In the scheduling part that went along with that pre registration, you know, and then the at the back end piece of it, which is your business office, you know, the billing claims, the EOB, denials, all those things, like, I definitely think some sort of understanding of your revenue cycle is, is definitely a big benefit. And then the HR side of thing is, it helps that you know, the numbers, and it helps you understand the basic principles of how practice works. But if you can’t work well, and identify the strengths and weaknesses in the people you work with, and for then, you know, it’s going to be difficult to place people in the right spots. So you definitely need to, I mean, most of what I do, is, is working with the people here, to make sure they’re on the right path. I mean, they’re, they’re the ones doing most of the work, you know, they’re there. They’re the ones making sure, making sure things are getting done, and they’re doing a great job. But my job is to make sure that we’re not in the ditches and in the middle of the road. So you definitely need to have, you know, a personnel aspect to that you can work through those things. And I think lastly, and, you know, and I wish I could say this was in my background initially, and if I could go back in time, I would have did things a little differently in college, but I probably would have got my Accounting Degree, just so you kind of have a leg up and understand the finances. And I think that would have definitely been really beneficial. Early on in my career, I had to just kind of fumble my way through it. So I would, I would definitely think that would be very, very helpful.

Jordan Smith 

Very cool. Well, so to sum that up, it’s hard, but I like the book, because more often not like the numbers person isn’t necessarily that skilled in HR, or, you know, kind of this some of the strategic stuff in that. So it’s uh, yeah, that’s, I mean, there’s there’s definitely a lot of things that that you’ve got to do kind of on a day to day basis. From a well, you mentioned it too. So I think now’s a good segue to talk a little bit more about, you know, you’d mentioned if you were in school, you wish you would have done more accounting. We, I know some of the listeners out there are in that practice administrative spot, you know, or they’re the person at the front desk that’s just checking people in and they think they want a career in healthcare, but maybe it’s not necessarily a nurse or doctor or speaking to that? What are some things that you would say, just like, you know, you taking some accounting classes in college? What are some things you would tell some people out there that are listening right now? Hey, if you want to kind of escalate to more than just an administrator or a staff member, you know, what would you do to kind of help gain that acumen that that, that you’ve acquired over the years? Just through experience? You know?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah. I think, don’t, don’t be afraid of doing, you know, a job that in your own mind, you may think, would be beneath you. You know, and this is, this is speaking purely from being way too naive and thinking, I just knew what I was doing when I got into college, because I did not, you know, I mean, I knew nothing. You learn a lot, you know, theoretically, but they actually do it is completely different. My first job out of college to break into healthcare was an operator for for a county hospital. And so basically, I would take calls from physicians, and then they would ask me would even know how to spell that? I’m like no, I don’t know. And then they would, they would educate me sometimes kindly, most times, not on the phone about how to spell things, you know, and then I would have to page that out to other physicians. So, you know, in my head, I was like, Well, of course, I can do this job. But what I quickly realized, like, No, I’ve got a lot to learn. And that definitely set me on a path of like, if there is an opportunity that I can spend time with someone or do a job that I haven’t done yet, then I should probably take advantage of that. I mean, the way I learned more about a business office was working with a director of a business office, I mean, I didn’t just get that experience, I had to intentionally set out and spend time with them. You know, your schedule may be busy, but you got to carve out time to spend time with people to learn parts of the job that you think are weaknesses that you may have. And then sometimes just blind luck, you know, be willing to take on opportunities when they’re given to you don’t put yourself in a position where you’re going to be in over your head. You know, going from like, front desk roll up to, you know, a CFO role. But when opportunities are presented to you don’t shy away from them. I mean, one of my first big opportunities, I was only managing half of an admissions office at the hospital. And they approached me said, Well, do you want to take on the emergency room, and the registration there, and I had no clue, really what that meant, or what it entailed. But I thought, well, if I want to advance my career, then this is, this is what I need to do. So I took that on. And luckily, it’s in a lot of hours and immense work, but it only gave me the confidence to then be able to move up into another job down the road. So if you have an opportunity to volunteer for any committees, you know, that gets you involved, do that. Volunteer opportunities, do those. Definitely visit with people in other positions, if you’re curious about how they do their job. So much about being able to move up an organization or any organization is, is about who you know, the connections you make? And do you have some experience in those areas? And, and that’s a lot of just, you gotta you got to put yourself out there and get to know people.

Jordan Smith 

Well, those are great tips. So what do you do to make sure that you kind of stay up to date or ahead with or their peer groups or their books? Are there? Is there a YouTube star that you like, you know, everybody’s kind of got their own ways to acquire knowledge and make sure that they’re ahead of the curve? What, what are some of the things to those people that are listening? What are some resources that might be valuable that you absorb on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

Colby Wilson 

So just speaking from a just a specialty practice, there is pretty much a membership for probably every single specialty out there that has, you know, Administrators, Managers, CEOs, CFOs, on these memberships and sharing information. I mean, I’m on one in particular, that it’s it’s or orthopedic groups across the nation, that it’s online, it’s forum based, you know, so but there’s people posting questions on there all the time and people answering and you just kind of learn by, you know, staying connected through that. And there’s, there’s obviously local stuff too. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a group called Vistage before. But you know, there’s groups like that. It’s just more CEO, based. Different industries, but you know a lot about running a business that you can just glean information about others through that. And then just making connections with, with your, with your specialty and the network you’re in. I mean, there’s a, there’s plenty of people here in this area that I just continually stay in touch with, whether it be lunch, you know, or just a, just a phone call to keep up to date of what they’re doing with their practice.

Jordan Smith 

Very cool. Yeah, because that’s important. A lot of times, you know, we always say that, it’s important to kind of chart your own path, but a lot of the time somebody has already gone down a similar path, and they can give you those pitfalls to look out for, and some, some different things to arm yourself with, so that you don’t run into the same problem. So chances are whatever problem you’re trying to solve somebody’s already been there and solved it. So, you know, spread out and try to find some, because what I’ve noticed just asking, right? You know? I’m always surprised of how reluctant some people are just to ask when it’s, that’s all it takes is just, you know, picking up the phone and asking to have lunch or coffee with somebody or to pick their brain. You’d be surprised, what type of results you get, if you just ask, you know, and be sincere about what your intentions are to, you know.

Colby Wilson 

Right. Yeah, I agree.

Jordan Smith 

Very cool. Well, I know that you from a CEO perspective, we talked about how important tracking practices progress is, right. And we always talk about, you know, what you manage moves and managing what you what you measure, you know. So tell us a little bit from your perspective. Again, for the listeners out there, we always like to talk about, especially when we’re talking to different practices, how do they track progress? Right? Yeah, there’s collection percentages and new patient counts. And, but but tell us some of the big KPIs that maybe you focused on that the practice hadn’t before? Or just your general thought process on? What, what are some big KPIs that the listeners out there, if they want to get a quick kind of health check of what their practices? What, what KPI? Should they be looking out for?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah, the just a couple that, that stand out to me. And this one may not always jump out to most people, but it’s just your turnover percentage. And that’s probably more of the HR background than me and, you know, do you have a culture at your, at your place of employment that people want to work with? You know, they want to come to work every day. And if your employees are excited to be there, then that, that definitely bleeds over into their interactions with the patients. And if those patients have good experiences, well, then they tell their friends and their family and, you know, so it definitely since kind of shockwaves out, if you have a good culture, then your in your turnover will hopefully, you’ll see that not be as hard. And you’ll retain those people. And I just think it plays a big part in the practice something in a couple other years, you’re just your collections up front? I mean, so much of what of what you expect to collect at your time of service, are you actually collecting that money versus not, you know, if you don’t click that up front, it just becomes that much harder down the line to, to get that. So you need to have kind of practices in place to, to handle that, you know, and under another is just your denial rate. You know, what you’re putting into your system in terms of the insurance and address and all that basic information you’re gathering up front. You know, are you then able to build that out? In a clean claim? You know, are you collecting that that money up front? Or is it being denied? And those those are being tied up, you have to chase on the back end. And just another one is your days and your days and account receivable. Know your net collection percentage, you know, are you are you truly collecting the money that that you’re entitled to based on your contract? I mean, a lot of it, a lot of it just ends up being more back end revenue cycle stuff. So you truly have a good idea of how you’re doing with your charges and the collections, but I’m not so sure enough emphasis is placed on the whole culture and turnover percentage, which which feels more fluff sometimes. You know, like it that’s a little harder to say, well, it costs us X amount of dollars, that that can be a little harder to identify. But I would venture to say the organizations that have less turnover probably tend to do a little bit better financially as well.

Jordan Smith 

Hmm. I love that you brought that up because that is not something we’ve touched on with previous guests on the podcast is a lot of that culture and the turnover rate. But it makes a lot of sense. If you think about any other type of business, right? At the end of the day, you guys are still in the customer service business. And how long on a typical appointment or consultation or or post op appointment? Am I actually in front of the doctor verse in front of other staff members? Right.

Colby Wilson 

Right. Very little.

Jordan Smith 

Yeah. So yeah, if you’re not focused on that, that’s great. So what are some things that that they could look at? If there’s a doc out there that does have a high turnover rate? Or they want to prevent that? You know, from a cultural perspective, what, what are what are some tips? What are some things that that you’ve seen in your past that work really well? What do you what do you implement in a day to make sure that you guys aren’t seeing that turnover?

Colby Wilson 

Well, you definitely have to take an interest in your employees. And, and not just with your time, but sometimes you got to commit dollars to it as well. And if that means you devote some of your budget to training, like through management training, or customer service classes or seminars, you send them to like, you know, if you’re investing in them, you know, that, then hopefully, you’re going to get that out. You know, that they’re going to be more informed and stay longer and treat the employees and patients better. So you got to be willing to commit, you know, some dollars to it. It’ll take more than just just words. But But you do definitely have to be interested in and spend time trying to take your on, on other employees in specifically.

Jordan Smith 

Oh, no, that’s great point. Because, you know, a lot of some people, whenever we talk to doctor sometimes, and we bring up culture, you know, we’re always surprised about how many people think Well, yeah, we’ve got a fridge full of snacks. Culture, like, no, that’s not kosher. That’s a fridge full of snacks. So I love that you said an investment in your people is an investment in your practice. And if you if you do that, and challenge them, and help them stretch their legs, and which ways they want to grow, they’re going to pay it back to you tenfold, right?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah, then something important and a lot of people talk about like a code of conduct or, or things like that will, you know make if you have values or standards, we’ll make those something that are actionable, or maybe more tangible for the employees. And we’re in the midst right now of kind of writing down what we believe are the Martin orthopedic values as a practice that will help bind us all together. So that way, any decision we make, we can look at it well that it match up with our 15 or 20 values that we have, that we’ve written down, and we all believe are part of this practice. And just two of them that, that we have a pretty extensive list, and we’re going to whittle those down. But to that really stood out to me that I believe we’ll make it into the final part for us, as long as we call it make it memorable. So like, you know, if you’re the one visiting with the patient, you know, we don’t want them to feel like a number, we don’t want them to feel like they’re just another patient, we want them to truly remember the experience here. And it’d be different than any other type of care they received from, from the other orthopedic practices, you know, if that means getting them coffee, or water or, you know, walking them back somewhere, or just spending an extra five minutes communicating to them, if they have questions. We want to exceed their expectations. So we want to definitely want to make it memorable. And another one, kind of internally for how we we want to look at ourselves is, is it’s called character over performance. And it’s not a matter of that. We think performance isn’t that important, but we want your character to really stand out. And by that we mean you’re leading with honesty and integrity, you know, it’s very, you could sum it up by, you know, always doing the right thing, despite the circumstances. And we want, we want the managers and employees to demonstrate that because we feel like that’s a core value, you know, for face with the, with a difficult decision. We want to make sure that we’re we’re approaching it, you know, based on honesty and integrity and, and, and not just off well, you know, supplying this type of DME, or doing it this way makes us extra money if it comes at the detriment of the patient, like we want to truly lead with integrity.

Jordan Smith 

I love that and, you know, listeners out there, I want to make sure that again, this point is not glossed over which is that, that, you know, that concept of a set of core values that everybody agrees on which a practice can now you guys can now hire, fire, promote, demote, whatever, you know, based off those core values, you know, we’ve all been in office where there’s a high performer, but they’re just terrible to be around, and you can’t put your finger on it either as a manager or a fellow employee, but, man, I just don’t like that Jordan guy. I don’t know what typically, if you really again, go back to those core values, it’s Oh, because their values are a little bit different. And, and, you know, you can see that in the way you’re interact with them. That what you’re talking about with this character over performance also puts guardrails on all the employees decision making process. So now you don’t have to be involved in every single decision that is made within the practice, right? Because, you know, if you follow these characteristics, I know that even if you pick a decision that I wouldn’t make, or you go down a path that I wouldn’t go down, I know that it’s still aligned with what our core values are.

Colby Wilson 

That that’s exactly,

RJ Martino 

you know, and I just had my two cents on my original question, which is, when do you need a CEO, and this is the exact stuff that I think I see healthcare organizations fail at is that they just want to come in and go to work. But you’ve got a team full of people and your your core values. That is what determines who the people that are going to run your practice are your people and who the people are determined what the vision is. And it’s not just one physician, it’s, it’s all of them. And they all have to agree on a vision. And that vision has to then be told to everybody in the organization over and over and over and our healthcare providers are too busy, they can’t do that. They literally just don’t have the time to do that. But we need someone whose job is to talk to all the stakeholders and build a vision. Because the vision is what determines the strategy we build. as healthy as marketers, Jordan, I build marketing strategies all the time. But it’s got to be built around your leader or your CEO’s vision. Because if it’s not, then it’s built around my vision, and you’re not happy regardless of if I’m successful or not, because it doesn’t match your vision. And from that strategy, we then build out the tactics from it. So you know, going back to my original question, which is when do you think you need, you know, what’s a telltale sign when an organization needs a CEO, and you nailed it is when you need to be proactive? When you feel like you have a culture problem. But doctors we know you don’t have the time to deal with that. Your healthcare administrators aren’t even skilled, or really empowered to do that. So I love this conversation. And thank you for hitting on those topics.

Jordan Smith 

Yeah, I think that’s excellent. So I know, we’ve got listeners out there, they’re thinking the same thing. But the big question, especially for those office workers out there, as I love all this, try talking my doctors into it. So I know one of the big things that you do. And the last question that we always, always mentioned about engaging your team, before we get to the final round and find out more about your specific path here. And just some insights that you can. How have you gotten buy in from everybody, because again, I know you get, whether it’s one doctor or seven doctors in a room, you know, like RJ said, they all have their own vision of what their individual specialty looks like 10 years from now or five years? You know, hap, what are some things for the listeners out there that saying, I love this, and I agree with it. You know, whether it’s me as a CEO, or I just put into practice some of the stuff that Colby is talking about? What advice would you give them on how to get buy in from their team of dogs?

Colby Wilson 

So it’s such a good question, because it’s like, you know, I think of it as like spinning multiple plates, it’s some point some will kind of fall out of that buy in, and you’ve got to get them back in. So you probably- you probably want all- you probably won’t always have them all on at the same time. The matter of constantly getting back them, you’ve got to show them one, how does it benefit them? I mean, at the end of day, you’ve got to show them individually, this is how it helps you. But then secondly, it’s not only is it going to help you but here’s how it’s going to help the practice. I mean, a very kind of relevant example is, you know, the thought of like well, you know, if we go into a different market, you know, we’re gonna go to a satellite office, well, you know, we’re going to send someone there and it’s a new market, so they’re probably going to generate a lot of new patients and hopefully from that a lot of new surgeries. And, you know, and that’s that’s obviously an extremely vital part of the practice. Well, you know, if, if I’m the physician not going there, I’m not reaping that benefit but what I do reap the benefit of the ancillary stuff. You know, as there’s more x rays done, more MRIs done, you know, I am going to end up reaping a benefit from that as a partner in the practice. So it it honestly is just you sitting down thinking, here’s why it’s good for the practice. Here’s why the other day, it’s going to be good for you as well. And you I’ve got data and a tracker, can you show that this strategy works? And we will reassess it along the way? If it’s not. But yeah, at any point in time, you probably won’t have them all onboard. But if you can get the majority of them, then you’ve got them headed in the right direction.

Jordan Smith 

I love that. Well, that’s a, that’s a great tip. So add that to the list of skills for the people that are out there looking for, maybe a CEO or somebody in this role is just added to the challenge found that an outstanding salesperson, so I love that question. All right, well, final round. So this is where we break it down. And kind of allow you to be a little bit retrospective and dig into your past a little bit. So these are the questions that we like to ask not only how you got there, which you’ve, you’ve talked a little bit about kind of what your path to this, but maybe how you would do things differently if you had to do over again. So that’s, that’s going to be the first question is if there’s a magic reset button, what systems would you go back and put into place sooner rather than later? I know, you said for example, you would want to kind of get more accounting acuity, but what type of systems or processes would you say, man, I’d also implement these things yesterday, if you could go back in time?

Colby Wilson 

I’ll just, I’ll speak less, maybe technically in the job, or more about making sure you’re building a network kind of rot away. I mean, I wouldn’t waste any time. You know, and thinking, well, I’ll just, I’ll connect to people, you know, just go ahead and do it. Because you’re gonna end up with a lot of different people through the challenges of different positions that you’re in. Ask questions. I mean, don’t be afraid. And you I think you even touched on that earlier. Like, don’t be afraid to ask questions that don’t let it be an ego thing. You know, it can be very admirable, you know, asking questions and showing that you got some humility to you. Because end of the day, we, individually, we probably don’t have all the answers. Surround yourself with intelligent people. You know, if you’re in a if you’re in a position right now, as a CEO, or an administrator, and, and you feel like you’ve got some, some people that work for you that after you’ve coached them, and given them the time to improve, if they’re just not going to get there, whether it be of their own volition, or just, they’re, they’re just not capable. You know, make tough decisions, you know, if that means reassign them, or find someone who can perform that job, then that may be what needs to happen, you know, the longer you delay on it, the more the practice will suffer. So, I would definitely suggest that when it comes to that point, make sure you surround yourself with intelligent people. And then, you know, lastly, and you’re definitely going to make mistakes. I’ve made my fair share of them. So, you know, the goal is just don’t keep making the same mistake over and over, you know, once you make that mistake, learn from it, and ensure that it doesn’t happen again. You’re not falling into the same kind of pitfalls over and over. And then if you make commitments, stick to them. A quick way to lose, maybe maybe a little bit respect, but also just your ability to be trustworthy is you make commitment. So you follow up on stuff, and then you never do. I probably should have mentioned that earlier about getting, you know, doctors kind of going in one direction. If you say you’re gonna do something and you don’t, and you know that you’re going to lose a lot of your goodwill and faith pretty quickly.

Jordan Smith 

No, I love that those are great. You answered three or four other questions that I had to so the very last question that I’ll ask is, let’s say you’re standing in front of a room of physicians, they’re just starting their practice, or, you know, like most providers, we know they’re kind of accidental entrepreneurs, they, they got on to a practice, they started working, the guy that hired him, started working less and less, and eventually he retired. Now all of a sudden, you’ve got to practice. You know, they’re battling through their fears, worries, doubt struggles, they’re trying to find their footing. What are two or three very specific strategies that you say, you know, if you just do these two things, you’re probably going to be more successful than not?

Colby Wilson 

Um, well, it, I’m gonna borrow a phrase from Scott Davis, who’s the CEO at Arkansas urology, but good doctors, given good data tend to make good decisions. So if you’ve got the good doctors in place, so your job is to get them the good data. That means running reports and looking at your business office and looking at all those KPIs. You know, your job is to get that stuff and make it actionable, and you can give that to them. And typically as a group, you’ll make good decisions. Something else just thinking about is be willing to maybe not always do things that the other groups are doing. And I’ll give you an example from here is, we don’t have a PT, like a physical therapy that’s in house for us. And it’s strategically. So we know a lot of the other groups here in town do have a PT in house, but what they’ll miss out on is, you know, physical therapy clinics get a lot of, we get a lot of referrals from them. For patients that just go to physical therapy, they self refer themselves, well, those those physical therapists, if it becomes an orthopedic issue, will want to send them to an orthopedist. But they’ll also probably want that patient to come back to their physical therapy practice. So we have built up a, you know, a good relationship with a lot of physical therapy offices around the clinic, simply because we know that we’ll get referrals from them, because they will get the patients back. So it’s not as common these days, because, because, you know, it’s another revenue stream, but we saw it as an opportunity to build authentic referral sources. I think maybe the last thing, and we kind of touched on it a little bit earlier, and it really is more of the KPI stuff, in the culture, just, those are two things, you definitely need to have a handle on. If you’re going to be in front of your doctors in front of your in front of your team need to, you need to understand the ins and outs of your numbers. But you also need to be able to connect with your employees and, and make sure that they’re an environment where they can thrive.

Jordan Smith 

I love that I don’t, I don’t think there’s a better spot, we could end on RJ good doctors giving good data, make good decisions, you know, spend time figuring out, you know, what, what you can do that others aren’t necessarily doing. And the third thing, which is pay attention to the culture and the KPIs, you know, both of those things will move the needle forward. Given enough, given enough time, effort and energy, so Coby Wilson, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure, we hit on some stuff that we haven’t hit on before that I know are super valuable for listeners. So I’m gonna ask you to put your money where your mouth is. If there’s some people that are watching this that want to add you to their network, or ask you some specific questions, how can they find out more about you or maybe even reach out to you personally to, to, to, to just glean some advice that you’ve blessed us with today?

Colby Wilson 

Yeah, I mean, I’d definitely be happy to I mean, I got my email at colby@martinortho.care. I’m on LinkedIn as well. I mean, I’d be happy to take any questions or, or just, you know, thoughts or bounce ideas off, I just build my network and if I can help someone else to that’d be that’d be great.

Jordan Smith 

Very cool. Well, for all the listeners out there, check out the show notes. We’ll have Colby’s LinkedIn link down there as well as that email that he gave out. Say it one more time, Colby. What’s the email?

Colby Wilson 

Colby@martinortho.care.

Jordan Smith 

Perfect colby@martinortho.care, Colby. Thank you so much. This has been great. I look forward to having you on again to talk more about culture stuff specifically because I know that’s a big topic.

Colby Wilson 

Alright, thank you guys.

RJ Martino 

Yeah, you’ve been wonderful. Wonderful for our audience. Thank you.

Colby Wilson 

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Jordan Smith 

All right, everybody. I told you a very special treat. This is Jordan here. Colby Wilson with Martin orthopedics. Like I said, check out those links for show notes. He’s, he’s serious. He puts his money where his mouth is. Where he says if anybody has any questions about this type of stuff, feel free to reach out to me. So I would encourage you guys, whether you’re an operator, in an organization, whether you’re a physician, and you want to dig into more about some of the stuff that Colby talked about with KPIs and core values and, and just, you know, kind of kind of what to measure and how to measure those things and some best practices to implement no better resource, in my opinion, than Colby. So, give us a like, follow share this with another another provider that you think might need to hear the type of stuff that we talked about. Again, we’re doing this for you guys. Also, if you know anybody who’d be a good guest on the podcast, reach out to us, share a name, our we put our contact information out there all over the place. So we’d love to hear from you guys. As always, like I said, send us a like, comment, reply. We’d love to hear from the community. All right, everybody, Colby Wilson with Martin orthopedics. I guess I’d reach out to him if you guys have any questions about it. Until next time, Thanks.